Відео

What ?? You got an iphone ??? ;)

Best day was when I showed my Apple friends digitized music/speech on my 64. Hated Apple basic so much I refused to use it in the one and only computer class I took in HS, turned in my printouts in C64 basic, the teacher was not pleased. Apples back in the day were just like trying to use Macs with only one mouse button. Super annoying and unintuitive.

In the 80s, I bought the VIC20, then returned it the next day and got the C64 instead.

Came for the apple, stayed for the beaver

I was talking to my TV, "Robin, it is line number 12. Just type 12 <enter>". LOL.

I was white knuckle afraid the whole time seeing so many things stuffed into a single line. New line numbers for almost everything here. Maybe two variables assigned together, or two print statements if I intended a double space. That way when (not if) I made a mistake it was easier to retype the offending line. I knew about the escape and cursor thing but I retyped anyway to be sure.

After you press Escape, and you cursor around, you can use it as a modal editor. It's not great, but it's not as bad as it seems. You have to be aware that cursor mode skips the characters on the screen, and outside of cursor mode the right arrow acts as if you typed the characters that were there (you showed this part in the video). This is double-edged: It can work as a copy-paste as well as a cut command, but it also is far from obvious and it isn't WYSIWYG.

You always do a great job, and I love your videos. BTW, I get a bit of a kick when you make a mistake, or when things are not going well, and you do that little 'Oh....' sound. I've heard it so many times that it will make me smile when you do it, and on this video, you really gave us a great one. Normally I smile a bit when you do, but that one you did on this video made me actually laugh out loud! Keep up the good work and keep chugging along. Your fan base will be there for you.

That Apple editor lies on the spectrum somewhere between vim and emacs. I'll sit down and await my beating. . . .

Delete does work as a backspace if you're not using ROM BASIC. Native Apple users always boot to a disk. Disk drives aren't optional for Apple IIs.

See, a big part of "user friendly" is just familiarity. For me, going from an Apple computer where you just put in the disk and turned it on, having to type a LOAD command with symbols and numbers seemed clunky and primitive.

3:20 Even as a Commodore fan who chose both a vic-20 and a C64 over all others as a kid (and paid for the Vic myself as a 13 year old), I agree with the critics. The Commodore machines were toys in comparison to the Apple II. All the small businesses that went with Apple over the competition is just proof of their (and my) assertion that Commodore computers were toys in comparison. For example, there is no easy way to get an 80 column display on a Commodore. What few hardware options there were available, most software could not use said hardware. The Apple 80 column card was widely supported.

44:45 - It's 2024, where is our super advanced version of Smell-O-Vision? I want that burning electronics smell when a RIFA capacitor explodes, gosh darn it! Also, I feel so spoiled thanks to the Commodore screen editor. #ThankYouCommodoreEngineers

1:30 "Guys, I love what you love. Please don't tear me a new one in the comments!!!!!" As much as I think the Apple II is a MUCH, MUCH better machine for small business (compared to Commodore or Atari or any other 8-bit popular at the time) , it is one of the worst 8 bit computers for the home. Completely inappropriate for games. Massively overpriced too. It's not just because it's weak in sound and graphics. It's because it was extremely weak for sound and graphics even at the time. Maybe not in 1977, but by 1980, it was obsolete

I think Woz was used to using terminals or teleprinters, and he was stuck in the "I have to do it the old way" mentality. Either that, or Woz was so good that he always typed everything correctly the first time, so he saw no need for an editor.

Why can't people just be thankful that we had and have so many choices? I thought my brother-in-law's CoCo was pretty cool; I don't understand why he felt the need to justify his purchase over my C64. I certainly felt no need to defend my purchase, and I didn't.

The TI-99 owners were jealous; the Apple owners were snobs.

The beaver footage really shows the understatement of "Beavers cut down trees and build dams". There way more effort than is implied.

Great video Robin, just confirmed I made the correct choice 40 years ago and loved my 64. Besides all my friends had C64's and we were pleased that our high school was a commodore user as well.

I think the reason for the thick lines drawn by HPLOT is the "artifact" color that Apple used. Single pixel diagonal lines would appear as alternating colors on a real CRT. It looks like your capture device is interpreting the signal as monochrome, so it's not apparent here. Try your program with HCOLOR = 1 or 2 or 5 or 6 to see a real mess. HGR in color is really only 140 x 192.

Editing a BASIC program on an Apple II was painful back in the day. Thanks for the trip down amnesia lane.

I remember in school where we had Apple IIs, the teacher gave us one of these extra-long one-line programs to type in, but he mentioned the problem about the extra space causing it to overflow if you tried to edit the program. The solution is to type POKE 33,33 which disables it from adding the extra spaces at the beginning and end of each line of text in the listing, which count against the line length limit if you cursor over them while editing the program. It will still add extra spaces within the program statements, though. So if your one-line program is too long to re-enter it with those included, the only solution is to type it in again!

Also the way that the graphics work in the apple is that sections of the screen are split apart in memory for some reason. I tried figuring out how to do high resolution Graphics in assembly and simply gave up because I couldn't figure out how to calculate where to put stuff in memory just to do a single line

Some people in here saying that apple had a terrible editor. It did not have one at all. Do you want it to change a semicolon or edit some text, you had to re-enter the entire line

Texas instruments got frozen out of the computer Market because Jack Trammell held a grudge against them that went back a few years. That probably spilled over into the Texas Instruments computer users

If the size is (one less than) a power of two, like S=3, then instead of D=RND(1)<.5 .. HPLOT X+R, Y+ABS(R-D*S) the following could work and be a tiny bit faster, if it has a xor: D=S*(RND(1)<.5) .. HPLOT X+R, Y+(R XOR D)

I grew up with an Apple ][e. I guess there's good reasons I don't remember doing any one-liners!

The obvious answer to easy editing is to have each command on its own line, but I wonder if there's a speed benefit to writing everything into one line of code? I fondly recall the 1- and 2 liner code demos on my apple 2 -- amazed by what could be accomplished with such tight code. I certainly learned a lot from them. :)

I never used Applesoft's Basic, and I guess I was lucky. That abysmally bad editor would drive me crazy.

In my high school we had TRS-80 Model 3 computers in the “Data Processing” class and Apple //e computers in the “Computer Science” class. I used both, and always preferred the Commodore screen editor on my own machine. In fairness to the Apple II, it’s not really normal to pack so much into a single BASIC line. The editing experience would be a lot easier, and the program more readable, with multiple lines. In any case, 8-bit computing is not for the impatient! A lot of little trees have to be dragged through the forest just to make that rudimentary dam!

To be negative in the retro computing and gaming world just seems so unnecessary. Thanks for your videos and what you contribute to the community.

I don't look at the Apple II line as a failure in any way, or somehow inferior to the C64. Instead, I look at the C64 as what you can do with when you have half a decade of development and advancements. So of course the C64 was better given that additional time, and I don't see them as competing with each other.

Are you keeping up with your commodre. ?

The confusing bit about the editing within Applesoft BASIC is that it involves two different modes -- input mode and cursor movement. The addition of spaces in listing can be a blessing and curse -- as you discovered, when you have program lines that are near the limit it's a curse (to work with these, you'll have to keep toggling between cursor move and edit mode). Inserting text could be handled by toggling to cursor move to move cursor elsewhere (possibly even text that you might want to copy), switch to enter mode to type or cursor past text you want to copy, then toggle to cursor move mode to position to continue, toggle back to enter mode to scan past the rest of the line. Blanks are ignored (unless part of a string constant or REM) -- so you can enter "P R I N T" and still end up with "PRINT" (assuming that there wasn't text prior to it that might affect the parser. This also meant you can't use space to indent code. It also means you can't use space to affect the parsing -- for example if you try to enter "IF A THEN PRINT A" you don't get the expected result -- you end up with "IF AT HEN PRINT A". To get the intended result you have to enter it as "IF(A)THEN PRINT A"

Anal retentive Woz, use as few chips as possible. Vs. Business is war Jack attack, get it done and get it out by Christmas.

This is some quality Canadian content!

I would love to see you do some tutorials on the Turbo Rascal Syntax error!

I met Jim and emailed with him a couple of times, I think you're definitely carrying the torch, Robin.

Makes me appreciate the nice screen editor on my 8-bit Atari computer.

The sound of the Apple floppy drives still brings back happy memories of typing in programs from Nibble magazine, and playing Lode Runner, Choplifter, and Ultima 3! 😅

I used to use an editor called Mr. Ed published in Nibble magazine, March 86. It made things so much easier.

You have to learn the machine you are working with, and it seems like you are pretty low on the learning curve for Apple // series. That's basically all you are experiencing here. Instead of getting frustrated by it and complaining about it for a half hour on a video, maybe try to learn a little more about it instead? Read a manual? Sorry if that's harsh, but, y'know, so is your video. Just sayin'. I would have much rather watched someone pointing out the quirks and explaining WHY Apple did it this way, and show people how we used to use the Apple // quite successfully for programming. You know! Positivity! Also, there were a variety of utility programs that made some of this stuff easier. There was a robust software ecosystem, particularly for the Apple // series. In fact, you could write your own software, it wasn't that hard. Understandable if you didn't grow up in the era and didn't use the Apple // back then, but perhaps not so excusable if you are putting out a video which you expect to have value for a wide audience. It's kind of like buying an old car and not knowing how to use the choke, or complaining that "you actually have to pull out a special knob to get the engine to start? And listen to that horrible idle! How do I keep this thing running? It keeps stalling! How ridiculous!" That's kind of how you sound on this video to me.

The reason you kept losing the last NEXT is because it just coincidentally happened to be past the 239 character input limit. You have the speaker turned down, otherwise you would hear the 8 beeps that would sound every time you tried to enter a character beyond the 239 character limit.

Fans of this channel already know this, but I'd like to take a second to appreciate the professional titles of these videos. Some kid, or a lesser UA-camr, would have titled this video something like "Robin DESTROYS Apple" and the thumbnail would have been him holding his arms in an X while looking angry. And I've never figured out why whenever a video is something like "Seven Reasons why blah blah" the thumbnail is almost always the person holding up 7 fingers, or whatever. Anyway, the professionalism of Robin's videos is appreciated.

Oh, that was a terrible basic editor. Nice video!

In the reentry to lines on the Apple escape to the start cursor whrough what you want to keep. escape and move to a open spece (like above) then unescape and type inserted text, escape on, move to next position on original line escape off, cursor (if the line is too long you can escape past the blank areas to tighten it back up to reenter.) TRS-80 BASIC line editor is just as bad but different (Ive used it but don't remember exactly how) Chuck Peddle claimed responsibility for ease of use on the screen editor to make the PET friendlier to program on.

Was the apple IIc sold in Europe? Having a hard time finding one.

as a kid I had a TI994/a and was super jealous of my neighbors who had Commodore64's

To stop an Applesoft BASIC program, press Control-C. Then type TEXT to get out of graphics mode and back into text mode.

The line character buffer in Applesoft (and in ROM) is actually 239 characters. Robin makes some very fair criticisms here. The Apple ][ BASIC input routines do suck, and the LIST command, while formatting the output to make it easier to read (based on rules that make for the odd and irregular spacing), it makes program editing a pain in the ass. But what's worse: this crappy editing regime? Or obliterating one's program in memory simply to get a disk directory, as with Commodore's DOS? The point being, for every stupid design decision on the Apple ][ (and there are a few), there's 5-10 for the Commodore.